Tuesday, March 31, 2009
Supporting the dictators
An e-mail wings its way to my in-box inviting me to a meeting tomorrow to discuss setting up an All Party Group on Latin America. The meeting is also to consider hosting a reception to mark the 50th anniversary of the Cuban revolution, and the 10th anniversary of the election of Hugo Chavez as President of Venezuela.
Putting aside the fact that Wales does not yet have a seat in the United Nations next to Cuba I do have some very real problems with this concept. Cuba is hardly an example of an effective democracy, in fact it is a dictatorship with some very marked differences in income levels and wealth as well as a general lack of freedom for citizens.
As for Hugo Chavez, I do not think that we can celebrate a man who seeks election as President for life and whose country features on Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch webpages with reports condemning the government on their failure to support democratic institutions and human rights.
Is this the agenda that Plaid Cymru now concerns itself with? How easily their heads are turned.
Putting aside the fact that Wales does not yet have a seat in the United Nations next to Cuba I do have some very real problems with this concept. Cuba is hardly an example of an effective democracy, in fact it is a dictatorship with some very marked differences in income levels and wealth as well as a general lack of freedom for citizens.
As for Hugo Chavez, I do not think that we can celebrate a man who seeks election as President for life and whose country features on Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch webpages with reports condemning the government on their failure to support democratic institutions and human rights.
Is this the agenda that Plaid Cymru now concerns itself with? How easily their heads are turned.
Comments:
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Stupid post Peter, once again.
Perhaps with your levels of ignorance you might just pass the SATs in England, but I doubt it.
I assume you know that Hugo Chavez was elected. Yes, he abolished term limits, to move in line with your favoured Westminster 'democracy'. A democracy which has a choice between 2 capitalist parties, which is no choice at all. The third party at a UK level are also capitalist sell-outs who want to sell-off the Royal Mail and other state assets at the expense of services for the people. That's the Liberal Democrats for you - slamming democracy when it gives you a socialist result.
I also assume you know that Cuba has an elected National Assembly. Of course you wouldn't like Cuba and Venezuela: they are socialist countries. You're happier with the Augusto Pinochet and other tin-pot dictatorships. You're happy because they are capitalist - it's nothing to do with democracy.
Perhaps with your levels of ignorance you might just pass the SATs in England, but I doubt it.
I assume you know that Hugo Chavez was elected. Yes, he abolished term limits, to move in line with your favoured Westminster 'democracy'. A democracy which has a choice between 2 capitalist parties, which is no choice at all. The third party at a UK level are also capitalist sell-outs who want to sell-off the Royal Mail and other state assets at the expense of services for the people. That's the Liberal Democrats for you - slamming democracy when it gives you a socialist result.
I also assume you know that Cuba has an elected National Assembly. Of course you wouldn't like Cuba and Venezuela: they are socialist countries. You're happier with the Augusto Pinochet and other tin-pot dictatorships. You're happy because they are capitalist - it's nothing to do with democracy.
# posted by 
: 10:37 PM
: 10:37 PM
Hugo Chavez has won more (free and fair) elections than anyone else in the Americas.
He has never sought election as 'President for life'! Not so much a lie as an ignorant statement. I think you have not read into the issue or do not follow news from Latin America as closely as people in the trade union movement and on the left do.
A referendum was held on ending term limits for all elected officials in Venezuela. So Hugo can stand again for election, and so can the Opposition Mayor of Caracas. He wanted to adopt the system we have in Britain.
Amnesty International has one criticism of Venezuela dating to 2006, that the Judiciary is not independent. It's true that Amnesty International have got it right, the Judiciary is all socialist, but if they weren't it would be bye bye to a democratically elected President and strife on the streets.
He has never sought election as 'President for life'! Not so much a lie as an ignorant statement. I think you have not read into the issue or do not follow news from Latin America as closely as people in the trade union movement and on the left do.
A referendum was held on ending term limits for all elected officials in Venezuela. So Hugo can stand again for election, and so can the Opposition Mayor of Caracas. He wanted to adopt the system we have in Britain.
Amnesty International has one criticism of Venezuela dating to 2006, that the Judiciary is not independent. It's true that Amnesty International have got it right, the Judiciary is all socialist, but if they weren't it would be bye bye to a democratically elected President and strife on the streets.
Castro also locks up political opponents and puts HIV sufferers in concentration camps. Obviously life for the ordinary Cuban is freer than under Batista, but it could be so much better.
AS to Chavez, his regime is still just about legitimate, but the direction in which it is travelling is worrying.
It is preposterous to suggest that Liberal Democrats were in favour of Pinochet. Frei might have been preferable to Allende, though.
AS to Chavez, his regime is still just about legitimate, but the direction in which it is travelling is worrying.
It is preposterous to suggest that Liberal Democrats were in favour of Pinochet. Frei might have been preferable to Allende, though.
[b]Hugo Chavez has won more (free and fair) elections than anyone else in the Americas. [/b]
What an absurd statement! How can you have free elections when you have almost a total monopoly on the media with Venezuelan state TV, and the closing down of the countries second largest TV station? Is that not the first act of a dictator? Close down the free press? Chavez is no more a democrat than Castro, who happens to be his best mate. Cuba’s so repressed citizens (unless you are party members) are not allowed access to the internet.
What an absurd statement! How can you have free elections when you have almost a total monopoly on the media with Venezuelan state TV, and the closing down of the countries second largest TV station? Is that not the first act of a dictator? Close down the free press? Chavez is no more a democrat than Castro, who happens to be his best mate. Cuba’s so repressed citizens (unless you are party members) are not allowed access to the internet.
# posted by : 7:16 PM
: 7:16 PM
Peter, I would like to address your assertion that Cuba has "very marked differences in income levels and wealth". What do you mean? What empirical evidence are you referring to? What countries are you comparing Cuba with? The UK and US have the greatest income disparities in the developed world. Income inequality in Cuba rose after 1990 largely due to the loss of markets for Cuban exports in the former Soviet bloc and the adoption of capitalist reforms. However, Cuba is widely credited with dealing with this crisis remarkably well through a range of policy measures designed to help the poorest (compare this with the measures now being used to support the richest ie. the banks in the Western economies). Indeed Cuba is now being used as a model of economic transition by thousands of cities and towns across the world who will be affected by peak oil, climate change and the concomitant rise in fuel and food costs. Cuba also features in the top 50 countries in the UN Human Development Report(updated) 2008, and is classed as having 'High Human Development'. Life expectancy in Cuba is the same as in the UK and US. Literacy levels are the second highest in the world (in the mid-18th Century Wales had one of the highest literacy rates in the world, today it is surpassed by Cuba). No other country in Latin America has the equity found in Cuba. This has been achieved despite a vicious 50 year economic blockade by the US, lack of soft loans and scant international development assistance.
If you have other evidence contrary to this then please provide it to us.
If your 'assertion' is merely opinion, I suggest that you retract it as it seriously hampers your already weak and reactionary argument.
If you have other evidence contrary to this then please provide it to us.
If your 'assertion' is merely opinion, I suggest that you retract it as it seriously hampers your already weak and reactionary argument.
# posted by : 12:55 PM
: 12:55 PM
I assume you know that Hugo Chavez was elected. Yes, he abolished term limits,
I assume mean the electorate! But your freudian slip in closest to the reality.
Who's stupid now? As for David McD So what! Oh BTW I recall Robert Mugabe was elected!
I assume mean the electorate! But your freudian slip in closest to the reality.
Who's stupid now? As for David McD So what! Oh BTW I recall Robert Mugabe was elected!
# posted by : 3:31 PM
: 3:31 PM
Hi Mike, i'd like to respond to the comment you made to me-
"What an absurd statement! How can you have free elections when you have almost a total monopoly on the media with Venezuelan state TV, and the closing down of the countries second largest TV station? Is that not the first act of a dictator? Close down the free press? Chavez is no more a democrat than Castro, who happens to be his best mate. Cuba’s so repressed citizens (unless you are party members) are not allowed access to the internet."
Mike, this is not the case at all. To meet international standards elections have to pass stringent criteria that have to be evidenced by international observers, who must be allowed complete freedom to do their work. Venezuela has always passed the test.
You are mistaken about the media. The vast majority of the media in Venezuela is in private hands and is opposed to Chavez.
I think you should study things more closely before making wild claims about President Chavez. My point is correct and valid. Ignorance and wild statements cheapen any debate.
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"What an absurd statement! How can you have free elections when you have almost a total monopoly on the media with Venezuelan state TV, and the closing down of the countries second largest TV station? Is that not the first act of a dictator? Close down the free press? Chavez is no more a democrat than Castro, who happens to be his best mate. Cuba’s so repressed citizens (unless you are party members) are not allowed access to the internet."
Mike, this is not the case at all. To meet international standards elections have to pass stringent criteria that have to be evidenced by international observers, who must be allowed complete freedom to do their work. Venezuela has always passed the test.
You are mistaken about the media. The vast majority of the media in Venezuela is in private hands and is opposed to Chavez.
I think you should study things more closely before making wild claims about President Chavez. My point is correct and valid. Ignorance and wild statements cheapen any debate.
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