Monday, November 03, 2008
Gimmicks!
It is day one of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Leadership campaign and already Jenny Randerson has demonstrated why it is that policy making is best left to the membership and why Leaders should not seek to impose it from above.
At her formal launch today she outlined a number of new ideas she would like the party to adopt including a new form of direct democracy. She wants to give the public the chance to veto unpopular Assembly Government policies. Her plan is that initiatives such as the ban on smoking or scrapping hospital parking charges could in future be the subject of a referendum. She says that she will set up a party commission to investigate whether the idea could be introduced.
So already we have a proposal to by-pass the party's normal policy making process through the establishment of a commission charged with finding a way to fill in the details on what seems like an expensive and unworkable policy.
Personally, I am not opposed to experiments in direct democracy as a means of re-engaging people, but we must find ways of accommodating these ideas within the representative democracy that has served us so well for centuries rather than using them to subvert that process. The idea of a mass petition to turn ideas into parliamentary bills at second reading stage in the House of Commons for example, appeals because it enhances the legislative process.
Jenny's idea takes executive decisions made by Welsh Ministers and tests them through a referendum that could cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. She does not say what might trigger that referendum nor does she explain how the process of government could continue under such circumstances. Effective scrutiny is one thing but the deliberate sabotage of government business through subjecting ministerial decisions to indefinite delay and uncertainty is quite another. It is a recipe for chaos.
Worse it is the sort of gimmick that we have said that we will eschew as a party. We have been here before of course. In 1999 we went into the election with three main promises, one of which was performance pay for Welsh Ministers. Once we got into government this idea was quietly dropped as impractical.
I was interested too in Jenny's call for the simplification of local government funding. She may be right but we should not forget that the present funding formula was agreed whilst she was a Minister. It is also the case that any change to this formula will produce losers as well as winners. These sorts of calculations are not simple as I suspect we will find out if we ever get the opportunity to reform Barnett.
In commenting on her launch on Radio Wales this morning Jenny spoke about the negotiations around the rainbow coalition last year. She quite correctly identified the failure of those who advocated this alliance to sell their case adequately to the Welsh Liberal Democrat Executive but then continued by stating her belief that the agreement was deliverable.
I disagreed strongly with that analysis then and I believe that events have demonstrated that my fears were well grounded, not least the fact that the One Wales Agreement has its own affordability problems. When these doubts were raised at that fateful Welsh Liberal Democrat Executive Jenny said that we should not be concerned as the document was drafted in such a way that it gave us wriggle room. In other words we could finesse the pledges in it so as to claim success even though it might not have proved possible to deliver everything we wanted. It is on such stratagems that manifestos are based and coalitions built.
There is a long way to go before the membership is asked to cast their vote in this election, however in my view the choice is clear. Kirsty is the real candidate for change. She is the next generation, an inspiring and effective speaker, a politician who has the courage to stand by her convictions despite enormous pressure being brought to bear on her. Jenny has spent the last nine and a half years as an Assembly Member as part of the leadership inner circle, she represents the status quo, more of the same. We need to move on as a party, that is why I am backing Kirsty.
At her formal launch today she outlined a number of new ideas she would like the party to adopt including a new form of direct democracy. She wants to give the public the chance to veto unpopular Assembly Government policies. Her plan is that initiatives such as the ban on smoking or scrapping hospital parking charges could in future be the subject of a referendum. She says that she will set up a party commission to investigate whether the idea could be introduced.
So already we have a proposal to by-pass the party's normal policy making process through the establishment of a commission charged with finding a way to fill in the details on what seems like an expensive and unworkable policy.
Personally, I am not opposed to experiments in direct democracy as a means of re-engaging people, but we must find ways of accommodating these ideas within the representative democracy that has served us so well for centuries rather than using them to subvert that process. The idea of a mass petition to turn ideas into parliamentary bills at second reading stage in the House of Commons for example, appeals because it enhances the legislative process.
Jenny's idea takes executive decisions made by Welsh Ministers and tests them through a referendum that could cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. She does not say what might trigger that referendum nor does she explain how the process of government could continue under such circumstances. Effective scrutiny is one thing but the deliberate sabotage of government business through subjecting ministerial decisions to indefinite delay and uncertainty is quite another. It is a recipe for chaos.
Worse it is the sort of gimmick that we have said that we will eschew as a party. We have been here before of course. In 1999 we went into the election with three main promises, one of which was performance pay for Welsh Ministers. Once we got into government this idea was quietly dropped as impractical.
I was interested too in Jenny's call for the simplification of local government funding. She may be right but we should not forget that the present funding formula was agreed whilst she was a Minister. It is also the case that any change to this formula will produce losers as well as winners. These sorts of calculations are not simple as I suspect we will find out if we ever get the opportunity to reform Barnett.
In commenting on her launch on Radio Wales this morning Jenny spoke about the negotiations around the rainbow coalition last year. She quite correctly identified the failure of those who advocated this alliance to sell their case adequately to the Welsh Liberal Democrat Executive but then continued by stating her belief that the agreement was deliverable.
I disagreed strongly with that analysis then and I believe that events have demonstrated that my fears were well grounded, not least the fact that the One Wales Agreement has its own affordability problems. When these doubts were raised at that fateful Welsh Liberal Democrat Executive Jenny said that we should not be concerned as the document was drafted in such a way that it gave us wriggle room. In other words we could finesse the pledges in it so as to claim success even though it might not have proved possible to deliver everything we wanted. It is on such stratagems that manifestos are based and coalitions built.
There is a long way to go before the membership is asked to cast their vote in this election, however in my view the choice is clear. Kirsty is the real candidate for change. She is the next generation, an inspiring and effective speaker, a politician who has the courage to stand by her convictions despite enormous pressure being brought to bear on her. Jenny has spent the last nine and a half years as an Assembly Member as part of the leadership inner circle, she represents the status quo, more of the same. We need to move on as a party, that is why I am backing Kirsty.
Comments:
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I agree whole heartedly with Ms Randersons comments that the Lib Dems in Wales must increase the size of their assembly group if the party is not to be sidelined - however I cannot see any way in which some one who has been so close to Mr German is in a position to deliver that objective.
If the party wishes to progress it must elect Kirsty Williams.
If the party wishes to progress it must elect Kirsty Williams.
# posted by 
: 7:42 AM
: 7:42 AM
"So already we have a proposal to by-pass the party's normal policy making process through the establishment of a commission charged with finding a way to fill in the details on what seems like an expensive and unworkable policy."
Come on Peter. Don't mislead your readers. Where on earth have you got the thing about bypassing the policy making process? As you well know, the party leadership and policy committee always have worked up policy ideas through various mechanisms before passing them to conference, which of course has the final say. How is your community safety policy review going by the way?
You clearly have not read Jenny's document because she is simply promising to set up a commission to investigate forms of all year round citizen engagement including a potential for a referendum mechanism. She's not layed down concrete proposals. Don't try to distort this.
Also, please explain how this is a gimmick? It is an idea for a proposal for a major change in Wales' constitutional settlement.
When I visited Wrexham with Jenny yesterday, it really hit me hard as to how disengaged people in the north are from the Assembly. If you think that it is not worth trying to make them feel part of devolution then thats a shame. I look forward to hearing how Kirsty would re-engage them.
"We should not forget that the present funding formula was agreed whilst she was a Minister."
What? This sounds like you are reading from a Plaid backbenchers briefing in plenary. We were in government when lots of things happened. Just like you and I and many others once argued for higher taxes as Lib Dems, we are now arguing for lower taxes. Ideas should be a reflection of circumstance. Being a Lib Dem means being bold and radical and not being afraid of working to circumstance.
I must say I was looking forward to you "taking apart" Jenny's manifesto. I thought a robust and ultimately quite fun policy debate would ensue. However, you are clearly left only able to wriggle around contradicting yourself and totally misinterpreting things for your readers. I know you don't speak officially for Kirsty's team but if this is the best response you can come up with then you seem to be a bit thrown by Jenny's manifesto. If this whole campaign is going to be a battle of ideas, as many of us hope, you are going to have to do much better!
Dom
Come on Peter. Don't mislead your readers. Where on earth have you got the thing about bypassing the policy making process? As you well know, the party leadership and policy committee always have worked up policy ideas through various mechanisms before passing them to conference, which of course has the final say. How is your community safety policy review going by the way?
You clearly have not read Jenny's document because she is simply promising to set up a commission to investigate forms of all year round citizen engagement including a potential for a referendum mechanism. She's not layed down concrete proposals. Don't try to distort this.
Also, please explain how this is a gimmick? It is an idea for a proposal for a major change in Wales' constitutional settlement.
When I visited Wrexham with Jenny yesterday, it really hit me hard as to how disengaged people in the north are from the Assembly. If you think that it is not worth trying to make them feel part of devolution then thats a shame. I look forward to hearing how Kirsty would re-engage them.
"We should not forget that the present funding formula was agreed whilst she was a Minister."
What? This sounds like you are reading from a Plaid backbenchers briefing in plenary. We were in government when lots of things happened. Just like you and I and many others once argued for higher taxes as Lib Dems, we are now arguing for lower taxes. Ideas should be a reflection of circumstance. Being a Lib Dem means being bold and radical and not being afraid of working to circumstance.
I must say I was looking forward to you "taking apart" Jenny's manifesto. I thought a robust and ultimately quite fun policy debate would ensue. However, you are clearly left only able to wriggle around contradicting yourself and totally misinterpreting things for your readers. I know you don't speak officially for Kirsty's team but if this is the best response you can come up with then you seem to be a bit thrown by Jenny's manifesto. If this whole campaign is going to be a battle of ideas, as many of us hope, you are going to have to do much better!
Dom
# posted by : 11:30 AM
: 11:30 AM
Dom, there is a difference between a working group set up by Policy Committee to report back to them and a commission set up as a separate entity which is what Jenny is proposing.
I am responding to reports on what Jenny is proposing. If it wrong then I expect her to correct it. She led on a referendum which is clearly a gimmick as it does not advance democracy rather it hinders the process of government.
I agree with you about people being disengaged but there are other more constructive and less expensive ways of tackling that, one of which I have outlined in this post.
The point is that they are disengaged because they do not see politicians representing or inspiring them. Gimmicks will not address that, inspirational leadership will. That is why I am supporting Kirsty.
On the local Government funding I was responding to Jenny's reported comments and I think that it is fair comment. However, I see that she has clarified that today and I agree with her about reducing specific grants though they remain a tool of government and I would expect even Jenny in government to use them to some extent, though nothing like they are used now.
Yes, we do need to look forward but if we are going to change our mind then we need to be honest about that, not pretend the past did not happen.
I have no intention of taking apart Jenny's manifesto. Why should I? Most of it is good Liberal Democrat policy. There will be little difference between her and Kirsty on most of it, if you exclude the headline catching gimmicks. What I have done is to comment on those issues I have a view on. There is no wriggling around, contradiction or misinterpretation. What I have responded to is what Jenny has said. If it is wrong then she needs to correct it.
Because there is so little difference about policy then this campaign is more than a battle of ideas, it is about how we reform the party and take it forward. As I said it is not for leaders to make policy.
I hope that you can do better than being so sensitive about the tiniest bit of criticism.
I am responding to reports on what Jenny is proposing. If it wrong then I expect her to correct it. She led on a referendum which is clearly a gimmick as it does not advance democracy rather it hinders the process of government.
I agree with you about people being disengaged but there are other more constructive and less expensive ways of tackling that, one of which I have outlined in this post.
The point is that they are disengaged because they do not see politicians representing or inspiring them. Gimmicks will not address that, inspirational leadership will. That is why I am supporting Kirsty.
On the local Government funding I was responding to Jenny's reported comments and I think that it is fair comment. However, I see that she has clarified that today and I agree with her about reducing specific grants though they remain a tool of government and I would expect even Jenny in government to use them to some extent, though nothing like they are used now.
Yes, we do need to look forward but if we are going to change our mind then we need to be honest about that, not pretend the past did not happen.
I have no intention of taking apart Jenny's manifesto. Why should I? Most of it is good Liberal Democrat policy. There will be little difference between her and Kirsty on most of it, if you exclude the headline catching gimmicks. What I have done is to comment on those issues I have a view on. There is no wriggling around, contradiction or misinterpretation. What I have responded to is what Jenny has said. If it is wrong then she needs to correct it.
Because there is so little difference about policy then this campaign is more than a battle of ideas, it is about how we reform the party and take it forward. As I said it is not for leaders to make policy.
I hope that you can do better than being so sensitive about the tiniest bit of criticism.
Isn't this all a bit strongly worded folks? We have a small Assembly group who have to work together afterwards, and the knifes seem to out and swung about already? Maybe Jenny and Kirsty should commit to a comedy roast just like Obama and McCain, in the interests of clearing the air...? ;)
# posted by : 1:50 PM
: 1:50 PM
Peter,
The current policy commissions, including yours are a direct result of a promise that the current leader made in the summer of 2007, therefore there is no difference between what is happening now and what Jenny is proposing.
I think you undermined your entire argument by trying to pretend that Jenny was "bypass(ing) the party's normal policy making process." I am sure this was a tempting swipe that you thought would resonate with party activists, but it was based on fiction.
Do you accept that her promising to set up a policy commission is no different from what you, her and Kirsty are all doing on other policy areas at the moment?
I thought too that there was little difference in policy, but I don't know now. Jenny has outlined her vision for Wales, but Kirsty has not yet. I look forward to seeing it whenever it is launched.
You say that this is about how the contenders will transform the party. I couldn't agree more and Jenny has said she will set out her ideas for that in coming days.
But we will not move forward as a party in this contest if it is all navel gazing. Jenny's document has shown that she has a vision for Wales. People outside the party, whether they agree with that vision or not, may be interested. They will not be interested if our candidates use the whole campaign to talk about themselves and ourselves.
I'm not being sensitive to criticism. I just felt that your readers should be aware that your comments about "by-passing the policy making process" were completely untrue and very, very unfair. I hope you now accept this.
The current policy commissions, including yours are a direct result of a promise that the current leader made in the summer of 2007, therefore there is no difference between what is happening now and what Jenny is proposing.
I think you undermined your entire argument by trying to pretend that Jenny was "bypass(ing) the party's normal policy making process." I am sure this was a tempting swipe that you thought would resonate with party activists, but it was based on fiction.
Do you accept that her promising to set up a policy commission is no different from what you, her and Kirsty are all doing on other policy areas at the moment?
I thought too that there was little difference in policy, but I don't know now. Jenny has outlined her vision for Wales, but Kirsty has not yet. I look forward to seeing it whenever it is launched.
You say that this is about how the contenders will transform the party. I couldn't agree more and Jenny has said she will set out her ideas for that in coming days.
But we will not move forward as a party in this contest if it is all navel gazing. Jenny's document has shown that she has a vision for Wales. People outside the party, whether they agree with that vision or not, may be interested. They will not be interested if our candidates use the whole campaign to talk about themselves and ourselves.
I'm not being sensitive to criticism. I just felt that your readers should be aware that your comments about "by-passing the policy making process" were completely untrue and very, very unfair. I hope you now accept this.
# posted by : 2:22 PM
: 2:22 PM
Sorry I do not accept that at all. I am not heading up a policy commission I am drawing up policy on the part of the policy committee in a working party with other interested party members. It seems clear to me that Jenny is talking about setting up a separate commission outside of the normal party apparatus and thus is seeking to bypass normal party procedures.
I am not making these comments to appeal to party activists. I am dong so because I have genuine concerns and wish to discuss them. I do not write this blog for the benefit of any group but use it to debate issues. I think you need to calm down a bit in attributing motives like that.
The fact that Kirsty has not yet set out her manifesto does not mean she does not have one. Like Jenny she will be outlining ideas over the next few days. It is not worthy of you to suggest that Kirsty's choice of timing means that she has a significantly different policy agenda to Jenny.
I hope these sort of dirty tricks together with all the off-the-record briefings against Kirsty are not going to be a feature of this election. I notice that no such briefings are taking place against Jenny.
Kirsty also has a vision and more to the point she is the future of this party.
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I am not making these comments to appeal to party activists. I am dong so because I have genuine concerns and wish to discuss them. I do not write this blog for the benefit of any group but use it to debate issues. I think you need to calm down a bit in attributing motives like that.
The fact that Kirsty has not yet set out her manifesto does not mean she does not have one. Like Jenny she will be outlining ideas over the next few days. It is not worthy of you to suggest that Kirsty's choice of timing means that she has a significantly different policy agenda to Jenny.
I hope these sort of dirty tricks together with all the off-the-record briefings against Kirsty are not going to be a feature of this election. I notice that no such briefings are taking place against Jenny.
Kirsty also has a vision and more to the point she is the future of this party.
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