Wednesday, July 04, 2007
The forces of reaction?
I mention this only in passing and then just for the sake of recording the vehemence of Labour opposition to their pact with Plaid Cymru. The Western Mail carries two high profile and compelling tirades against the One Wales Agreement this morning.
On the front page we find Foreign Office Minister, Kim Howells, accusing Rhodri Morgan of “helping to deliver our communities into the hands of nationalist incompetents and separatists”. In a letter to officers and executive members of his local Labour Party, Mr. Howells says:
“If this proposal is pushed through... it will mean that the Labour Party in the Assembly will be the vehicle for transforming significant elements of Plaid Cymru’s political aspirations into reality.
“It may be that many, or some, of Labour’s AMs agree with significant elements of the Plaid Cymru agenda and that they see no difficulty or danger in a much more powerful set of administrative functions for the Assembly.
“I understand that there are Labour AMs who are comfortable, for example, with a shift to Cardiff of responsibility for tax-raising (and fixing) powers and for a ‘review’ of the principle and workings of the Barnett formula (which determines how much the Assembly gets from the Treasury), as well as for control to be handed to the Assembly of key England/Wales responsibilities such as those that determine the shape and administration of justice and law and order.
“All of these aspirations are, of course, at the heart of the nationalist agenda. They lead ultimately to separation and independence... It is ironic that the very same party that for so long held at bay the separatists and cultural and political nationalists is prepared, now, to provide for their former enemies an Assembly vehicle that transports those same nationalists to the gates of independence.”
Dr Howells then predicts how Plaid will react to a future tough budgetary settlement from the Treasury. He writes, “If Plaid Cymru is in coalition, it will be able to claim publicly that its aspirations to raise spending on public services in Wales are being thwarted by a Labour-controlled UK Treasury. The Labour section of the coalition will be portrayed as being the drag on progress, holding back the people of Wales while Plaid Cymru (which will have no responsibility whatsoever for raising and distributing revenue across the UK) will portray itself in sharp contrast as the noble visionaries, sabotaged by Labour partners who remained chained to a ‘London-centric’ ruling party.
“Be under no illusion that this will erode further Labour’s electoral appeal in Wales. The news media will back Plaid and the notion of open warfare with London – it will be a major, long-running story for them: a kind of news saga that will keep them in business into the foreseeable future. It will also mean an increased challenge for our councillors in the local elections in less than a year’s time. By inviting this coalition, we will be helping to deliver our communities into the hands of nationalist incompetents and separatists.
“These are just some of the reasons why I urge you not to support the proposed coalition with Plaid Cymru.”
In the same paper, Torfaen AM and Labour Group Chair, Lynn Neagle sets out her objections. In particular she seems affronted by efforts to silence her:
One of the many fears harboured by those of us in the Labour Party who oppose the One Wales document, centres on where this coalition is taking us long term – as a party and as a country. These fears seem well founded when you read the recent comments of Plaid’s campaign co-ordinator, Adam Price, who describes his party’s latter day commitment to social justice and socialism as a “strategy” to move the Welsh left further towards an Independent Wales. A key negotiator for Plaid, he sees the One Wales document as a victory on this path. If we, as Labour Party members, are allowed to show no alarm at such sentiments then we should question our loyalties. Welsh Labour was built as a party of co-operation, solidarity and social justice – not as a party of division, not as a party serving the interests of a cultural elite fascinated by constitutional change.
The name of the Labour politician who suggested to me that 'One Wales' was synonymous with 'Ein Reich' will remain confidential, but it does show the strength of feeling within some elements of Wales Labour about this deal. For all of that I expect it to be passed at the weekend by both parties, then it will be the opposition's job to test its strength and durability.
On the front page we find Foreign Office Minister, Kim Howells, accusing Rhodri Morgan of “helping to deliver our communities into the hands of nationalist incompetents and separatists”. In a letter to officers and executive members of his local Labour Party, Mr. Howells says:
“If this proposal is pushed through... it will mean that the Labour Party in the Assembly will be the vehicle for transforming significant elements of Plaid Cymru’s political aspirations into reality.
“It may be that many, or some, of Labour’s AMs agree with significant elements of the Plaid Cymru agenda and that they see no difficulty or danger in a much more powerful set of administrative functions for the Assembly.
“I understand that there are Labour AMs who are comfortable, for example, with a shift to Cardiff of responsibility for tax-raising (and fixing) powers and for a ‘review’ of the principle and workings of the Barnett formula (which determines how much the Assembly gets from the Treasury), as well as for control to be handed to the Assembly of key England/Wales responsibilities such as those that determine the shape and administration of justice and law and order.
“All of these aspirations are, of course, at the heart of the nationalist agenda. They lead ultimately to separation and independence... It is ironic that the very same party that for so long held at bay the separatists and cultural and political nationalists is prepared, now, to provide for their former enemies an Assembly vehicle that transports those same nationalists to the gates of independence.”
Dr Howells then predicts how Plaid will react to a future tough budgetary settlement from the Treasury. He writes, “If Plaid Cymru is in coalition, it will be able to claim publicly that its aspirations to raise spending on public services in Wales are being thwarted by a Labour-controlled UK Treasury. The Labour section of the coalition will be portrayed as being the drag on progress, holding back the people of Wales while Plaid Cymru (which will have no responsibility whatsoever for raising and distributing revenue across the UK) will portray itself in sharp contrast as the noble visionaries, sabotaged by Labour partners who remained chained to a ‘London-centric’ ruling party.
“Be under no illusion that this will erode further Labour’s electoral appeal in Wales. The news media will back Plaid and the notion of open warfare with London – it will be a major, long-running story for them: a kind of news saga that will keep them in business into the foreseeable future. It will also mean an increased challenge for our councillors in the local elections in less than a year’s time. By inviting this coalition, we will be helping to deliver our communities into the hands of nationalist incompetents and separatists.
“These are just some of the reasons why I urge you not to support the proposed coalition with Plaid Cymru.”
In the same paper, Torfaen AM and Labour Group Chair, Lynn Neagle sets out her objections. In particular she seems affronted by efforts to silence her:
One of the many fears harboured by those of us in the Labour Party who oppose the One Wales document, centres on where this coalition is taking us long term – as a party and as a country. These fears seem well founded when you read the recent comments of Plaid’s campaign co-ordinator, Adam Price, who describes his party’s latter day commitment to social justice and socialism as a “strategy” to move the Welsh left further towards an Independent Wales. A key negotiator for Plaid, he sees the One Wales document as a victory on this path. If we, as Labour Party members, are allowed to show no alarm at such sentiments then we should question our loyalties. Welsh Labour was built as a party of co-operation, solidarity and social justice – not as a party of division, not as a party serving the interests of a cultural elite fascinated by constitutional change.
The name of the Labour politician who suggested to me that 'One Wales' was synonymous with 'Ein Reich' will remain confidential, but it does show the strength of feeling within some elements of Wales Labour about this deal. For all of that I expect it to be passed at the weekend by both parties, then it will be the opposition's job to test its strength and durability.
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There is of course the possibility that Labour dump the deal on Friday, leaving Plaid a tricky decision on Saturday. Constitutionally, emergency motions can be proposed and voted on, on the day of the Council. Perhaps though, the members will be so put off the idea of the Rainbow option by now, that they will agree a continuation of the minority Govt.
The problem Mr Black is your party and the fact that no-one trusts you any more. For the sake of Wales, you need to get your act together if Labour 'does a Lib Dem' on Friday.
The problem Mr Black is your party and the fact that no-one trusts you any more. For the sake of Wales, you need to get your act together if Labour 'does a Lib Dem' on Friday.
# posted by 
: 9:47 AM
: 9:47 AM
There is absolutely no reason to not trust the Welsh Liberal Denocrats to deliver on agreements that have been agreed democratically by the party.
"to deliver on agreements that have been agreed democratically by the party. "
But will they get bored with it in a few months?
As predicted Labour is now back pedalling fast when they realised a certain code of conduct was expected as part of the deal. Anyone could have predicted that after their behaviour during the election campaign.
So what really matters in the Bay? Will all this fiasco lead to another Assembly election?
But will they get bored with it in a few months?
As predicted Labour is now back pedalling fast when they realised a certain code of conduct was expected as part of the deal. Anyone could have predicted that after their behaviour during the election campaign.
So what really matters in the Bay? Will all this fiasco lead to another Assembly election?
# posted by : 12:54 PM
: 12:54 PM
I cannot speak for Plaid but of course the Welsh Liberal Democrats would not get bored with it. We sustained a three year coalition in 2000-03. We could do it again.
Peter,
As you will have observed from Huw's demeanour last night the Brit Nats know they have lost. These desperate death throws in the press are a last ditch attempt to intimidate delegates in both Labour and Plaid. They have long been mandated by their local parties and this is all a waste of time and print.
PS Of more interest what did Huw put on that note he passed to you? Do think he would have the courage to make the same comment to Leanne's face?
As you will have observed from Huw's demeanour last night the Brit Nats know they have lost. These desperate death throws in the press are a last ditch attempt to intimidate delegates in both Labour and Plaid. They have long been mandated by their local parties and this is all a waste of time and print.
PS Of more interest what did Huw put on that note he passed to you? Do think he would have the courage to make the same comment to Leanne's face?
# posted by : 2:54 PM
: 2:54 PM
"We sustained a three year coalition in 2000-03. We could do it again."
"Could", but "won't". The Lib-Dems remain so vexed they will remain on the sidelines where, frankly, right now, and, for sometime yet, they belong.
"Could", but "won't". The Lib-Dems remain so vexed they will remain on the sidelines where, frankly, right now, and, for sometime yet, they belong.
# posted by : 5:56 PM
: 5:56 PM
Not true at all. We committed to a coalition but PLaid Cymru changed their minds yet again and walked away from it.
"We committed to a coalition but PLaid Cymru changed their minds yet again and walked away from it. "
Peter, Rhodri Morgan had been elected as First Minster by then - the context was a totally different one - and you know it.
As someone who was also present last night at the Bevan Foundation discussion, can I just say how good it was to hear you all talk about policies. What struck me was how much consensus there was around the table, although that might have had something to do with the tenor of the event, social justice and equality.
I think we can all guess what Huw Lewis wrote on that little note. Shame he had to resort to such puerile behaviour in what was otherwise a fair and open discussion, considering these 'interesting times' as Ms Winkler put it.
Peter, Rhodri Morgan had been elected as First Minster by then - the context was a totally different one - and you know it.
As someone who was also present last night at the Bevan Foundation discussion, can I just say how good it was to hear you all talk about policies. What struck me was how much consensus there was around the table, although that might have had something to do with the tenor of the event, social justice and equality.
I think we can all guess what Huw Lewis wrote on that little note. Shame he had to resort to such puerile behaviour in what was otherwise a fair and open discussion, considering these 'interesting times' as Ms Winkler put it.
Peter, the Lib-Dems will remain vexed until a certain sea-attitude change comes to fruition within the Lib-Dem Party. Absent that sea-attitude change the Lib-Dems will continue to loose influence.
# posted by : 9:30 PM
: 9:30 PM
I think the members were commited to the rainbow coalition, but the executive were split, which makes us look unreliable in the eyes of the other partys, if we cannot make our minds up. Was there something in the All Wales Accord that members of the executive objected to? As it seems strange that the Executive voted yes to have talks with Plaid and the Torys and then seem to be unable to make their minds up. Such a wasted opportunity was lost, i wonder what the electorate will make of us now?? I think they wanted a non-labour coalition.
# posted by : 8:03 PM
: 8:03 PM
It is called democratic debate. If the other parties cannot cope with that then they are worse off than I thought. There is a story to be told about the Executive which has not yet come out however in direct answer to your point, voting to have talks is different to be satisfied with their outcome.
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