Monday, June 25, 2007
Red-Green?
Having used their Saturday edition to try and persuade us that the most likely outcome of coalition talks in the National Assembly is a rainbow coalition, the Western Mail now says that the favoured option is a Labour-Plaid Cymru link-up.
Presumably, they have spoken to a substantial number of the Plaid Cymru group to have reached this conclusion. I understand that Ieuan Wyn Jones spent some considerable time during meetings with his members over the weekend seeking to explain that option above all others. If it is the case that the Plaid leader now sees the merits of linking up with Rhodri Morgan then it really is game-over for the rainbow.
All of this is speculation of course. Plaid Cymru have proved themselves to be as adept at keeping us guessing as they are at changing their mind. The party have form on this, as they proved last year when they walked out on the other opposition parties on a pretext, so as to strike a deal with Labour on the budget. Let us hope that they get more from Rhodri Morgan this time than they did then, otherwise they may find themselves on another 'cheap date'.
Presumably, they have spoken to a substantial number of the Plaid Cymru group to have reached this conclusion. I understand that Ieuan Wyn Jones spent some considerable time during meetings with his members over the weekend seeking to explain that option above all others. If it is the case that the Plaid leader now sees the merits of linking up with Rhodri Morgan then it really is game-over for the rainbow.
All of this is speculation of course. Plaid Cymru have proved themselves to be as adept at keeping us guessing as they are at changing their mind. The party have form on this, as they proved last year when they walked out on the other opposition parties on a pretext, so as to strike a deal with Labour on the budget. Let us hope that they get more from Rhodri Morgan this time than they did then, otherwise they may find themselves on another 'cheap date'.
Comments:
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Peter
You cannot avoid the fact that there would have been a rainbow government in place now but for the behaviour of your party.
I know you, and many of Plaids opponents will be delighted if we vote Red/Green however dont count your chickens just yet.
You cannot avoid the fact that there would have been a rainbow government in place now but for the behaviour of your party.
I know you, and many of Plaids opponents will be delighted if we vote Red/Green however dont count your chickens just yet.
Actually Mark, I dont accept that for one moment. The Rainbow Coalition has been on the table for weeks. It is Plaid Cymru who are now getting cold feet. You cannot go around blaming others for the consequences of your decisions. You have to take responsibility for them. By all means vote for a red-green coalition. I will not condemn you for that but dont try and pretend you were forced into it. You were not.
Cymrumark!
Says more about the undemocratic nature of Plaid Cymru, than anything else.
If its Red Green then let them get on with it. Government is not a game of percentages.
My problem with the "rainbow" its not the same thing as Scotland. At least the reason why Alan Salmon is First Minister is because they had the largest share of the vote. The Tories have no mandate to be in government.
Says more about the undemocratic nature of Plaid Cymru, than anything else.
If its Red Green then let them get on with it. Government is not a game of percentages.
My problem with the "rainbow" its not the same thing as Scotland. At least the reason why Alan Salmon is First Minister is because they had the largest share of the vote. The Tories have no mandate to be in government.
# posted by 
: 3:43 PM
: 3:43 PM
Peter
As you know I have posted before saying we cannot dodge responsibility for our deciusions. However the fact remains that the Rainbow would have been voted through fairly easily at our national council weeks ago. The behaviour of your party caused many in Plaid, mistakenly in my view, to think again. You also have to accept your share of responsibility.
Morgan
I dont understand your point. What is undemocratic about Plaid?
As you know I have posted before saying we cannot dodge responsibility for our deciusions. However the fact remains that the Rainbow would have been voted through fairly easily at our national council weeks ago. The behaviour of your party caused many in Plaid, mistakenly in my view, to think again. You also have to accept your share of responsibility.
Morgan
I dont understand your point. What is undemocratic about Plaid?
And if the Plaid group voted for the rainbow on Tuesday but we said that we wanted to think again because you were playing us off against Labour would that then be your fault. I dont think so.
What Plaid has done in turning its back on the rainbow and talking to Labour is far worse in these terms that the blip in our decision making process. I dont even think our party behaved badly. We took a democratic indecision.
The problem was that the impasse exposed our leadership for a brief 24 hours. So what? It was nothing compared to what Ieuan Wyn Jones went through four years ago.
If you chose to think again that was your fault not ours. The rainbow has been on the table, you have not signed up to it. We have no responsibility for that decision. It is entirely yours to make.
What Plaid has done in turning its back on the rainbow and talking to Labour is far worse in these terms that the blip in our decision making process. I dont even think our party behaved badly. We took a democratic indecision.
The problem was that the impasse exposed our leadership for a brief 24 hours. So what? It was nothing compared to what Ieuan Wyn Jones went through four years ago.
If you chose to think again that was your fault not ours. The rainbow has been on the table, you have not signed up to it. We have no responsibility for that decision. It is entirely yours to make.
A democratic indecision? :) thats a new one :)
As I say I am aware of what has motivated the re-think for some in Plaid. As I said earlier its also a mistake. Its simply a matter of fact that the rainbow would have been in place but for the "democratic indecision" of your executive. We will now take responsibility for our own decision.
As I say I am aware of what has motivated the re-think for some in Plaid. As I said earlier its also a mistake. Its simply a matter of fact that the rainbow would have been in place but for the "democratic indecision" of your executive. We will now take responsibility for our own decision.
Peter Black said:
"Actually Mark, I dont accept that for one moment. "
It was indeed the Liberal Democrats who started all this fiasco after the election. You were right in the middle of it, you said you preferred to be in opposition. Funny how you see the events so different to those who watched it. It has lost the Lib/DEms all credibility and they will struggle to remain a serious party in Wales.
"Actually Mark, I dont accept that for one moment. "
It was indeed the Liberal Democrats who started all this fiasco after the election. You were right in the middle of it, you said you preferred to be in opposition. Funny how you see the events so different to those who watched it. It has lost the Lib/DEms all credibility and they will struggle to remain a serious party in Wales.
# posted by : 8:47 PM
: 8:47 PM
There are a lot of people trying to write off the Welsh Liberal Democrats but I think you will find that things move on.
It is also the case that people see these events according to their allegiances. I dont believe that the Liberal Democrats have handled this whole process at all well but we have not been alone in making mistakes.
So many people in Plaid are trying to use us as an excuse to do the unthinkable but at the end of the day they will be held accountable for their own actions and decisions and by then people will have forgotten the reasons they gave for making them in the first place.
It is also the case that people see these events according to their allegiances. I dont believe that the Liberal Democrats have handled this whole process at all well but we have not been alone in making mistakes.
So many people in Plaid are trying to use us as an excuse to do the unthinkable but at the end of the day they will be held accountable for their own actions and decisions and by then people will have forgotten the reasons they gave for making them in the first place.
So Plaid have now delayed their group meeting until Wednesday, after they hear what the Labour group has to say tomorrow night!!
You out your left arm in, your left arm out, in, out......
You out your left arm in, your left arm out, in, out......
Karen,
You are an astute politician and therefore wise enough to know that your party blew it by allowing Labour time to get serious with an offer to Plaid. Your party is not influential enough to revise political history and will suffer for a lack of backbone when they needed it.
You are an astute politician and therefore wise enough to know that your party blew it by allowing Labour time to get serious with an offer to Plaid. Your party is not influential enough to revise political history and will suffer for a lack of backbone when they needed it.
# posted by : 10:44 AM
: 10:44 AM
What utter nonsense. The Welsh Liberal Democrats are a democratic party. There was always going to be a delay whilst the proposal was discussed and decided on. Anybosy would think that Plaid Cymru dont have a mind of their own. The only people who seem to be lacking backbone at the moment are the Party of Wales. They dont seem to have the courage to take on the role of First Minister.
Peter, are you speaking "we" for all the Liberal Democrats? Or does the "we" mean yourself?
Do you still have a party behind you in Swansea? And if not, Why?
Do you still have a party behind you in Swansea? And if not, Why?
# posted by : 1:45 PM
: 1:45 PM
No I am using 'we' to mean all the Welsh Lib Dems. There is a very active and successful local party in Swansea.
Anonymous, thank you for your assessment of my abilities! This is typical of Plaid though - blaming others for their own failings. Plaid knew the special conference was taking place on the same Saturday that their Grand Council met, they could have gone ahead and ratified the deal then - just in case!!
For the record I spoke and voted against the deal for a variety of reasons, amongst them a distrust of Plaid and opposition to some of their manifesto commitments whoch found their way into the accord.
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For the record I spoke and voted against the deal for a variety of reasons, amongst them a distrust of Plaid and opposition to some of their manifesto commitments whoch found their way into the accord.
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