Monday, May 23, 2005
Aging gracefully
A suggestion by Adair Turner, the head of the government-commissioned Pensions Commission, that lower-paid workers should retire on a full pension at 65 to reflect their shorter life expectancy, are interesting to say the least. The question has to be asked however, is his proposal that those who study at university should work until they are 70, related to the fact that students may need this additional period of employment to pay off all the debt the Labour Government is saddling them with through variable top-up fees etc? Perhaps this is a question worth asking in tomorrow's Assembly debate on tuition fees.
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Presumably then the secret is to avoid repaying the loans for 25 years and everything will be OK? You really do need to get to grips with the concept of irony, Martyn
And you think that it is acceptable that people who are being trained and educated to provide a future for this country should pay such punitive taxation for their education? I expect you will be seeking to recover the cost of post 16 education next and then charging people to send their children to state schools.
It is not me who is claiming that people are put off higher education by debt issues, it is a fact and is backed up by the figures. I dont need to scaremonger I think the figures you quote will be quite sufficient to put people off, especially when they consider living and study expenses on top of that.
With regards to my supposed false statement I cannot be held responsible if New Labour activists are incapable of recognising and dealing with irony.
It is not me who is claiming that people are put off higher education by debt issues, it is a fact and is backed up by the figures. I dont need to scaremonger I think the figures you quote will be quite sufficient to put people off, especially when they consider living and study expenses on top of that.
With regards to my supposed false statement I cannot be held responsible if New Labour activists are incapable of recognising and dealing with irony.
Two points:
1. Most graduates will repay the cost of their degree through taxation anyway. That is the traditional way that education is paid for in this Country. If Labour are abandoning that principle then it is perfectly reasonable to speculate as to how they might extend it in the future.
2. Most Welsh graduates who remain on Wales earn nothing like £30,000 a year. Many work in the public sector on low wages and yet you would burden them with additional punitive taxation. The £15,000 debt you believe they will be burdened with is not just on the low side but a very debilitating burden to start off employment with.
I am sure that your fellow students would not appreciate your dismissing their very real problems in this way. It is no wonder that most of them decided that they could not stomach Labour on May 5th.
1. Most graduates will repay the cost of their degree through taxation anyway. That is the traditional way that education is paid for in this Country. If Labour are abandoning that principle then it is perfectly reasonable to speculate as to how they might extend it in the future.
2. Most Welsh graduates who remain on Wales earn nothing like £30,000 a year. Many work in the public sector on low wages and yet you would burden them with additional punitive taxation. The £15,000 debt you believe they will be burdened with is not just on the low side but a very debilitating burden to start off employment with.
I am sure that your fellow students would not appreciate your dismissing their very real problems in this way. It is no wonder that most of them decided that they could not stomach Labour on May 5th.
The reality of the situation of course is that we did come up with a costed proposal in our manifesto that would have abolished top up fees, introduced free personal care (also defined in the manifesto) and replaced the Council Tax with a local income tax. All of that remains party policy and will do so until the membership decides otherwise.
The actual additional money estimated to go into the HE sector from top up fees is just over £1 billion. That can be met from some of the proceeds of an additional tax on those earning more than £100,000 a year - a redistributive measure that those on the left would normally welcome.
As for how many students, in Wales there are no targets, ask Jane Davidson.
The actual additional money estimated to go into the HE sector from top up fees is just over £1 billion. That can be met from some of the proceeds of an additional tax on those earning more than £100,000 a year - a redistributive measure that those on the left would normally welcome.
As for how many students, in Wales there are no targets, ask Jane Davidson.
Just because you are too lazy to check it out does not make the policy flawed. The party has done the research and the results are published and available.
The current free Higher Education policy is based on "as many HE places as are needed". What is the problem with this? The costing of the policy is based on replacing the projected income from top-up fees with public funds raised from taxation. That figure is quantifiable and is available in the Regulatory Appraisal to the Education Act.
The current free Higher Education policy is based on "as many HE places as are needed". What is the problem with this? The costing of the policy is based on replacing the projected income from top-up fees with public funds raised from taxation. That figure is quantifiable and is available in the Regulatory Appraisal to the Education Act.
Not only was the research sound on local income tax but so was the policy. Simon Hughes is wrong on this issue.
Oh dear...
HEW
Have all the stats on Welsh HE that you could shake a stick at and if that is not enough why not try HESA?
University of Wales documents would also be useless as they don't include Glamorgan. While I can (just about) understand your point of view, you must also understand that most students (perhaps 99%?) don't agree with your view? And if so you should be repectful of that perhaps? Your figures also don't work in a real world situation most students find themselves in. Ask 20 female students and I bet more than half will have a type of store card. These bad boys charge 30% interest on all purchases, with lots of students using them. Students are not cash 'poor', they are just confined to a lifetime of debt and living with the consequences. Really Martyn have you nothing in your life more important than trolling on other peoples blogs? sheesh!
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HEW
Have all the stats on Welsh HE that you could shake a stick at and if that is not enough why not try HESA?
University of Wales documents would also be useless as they don't include Glamorgan. While I can (just about) understand your point of view, you must also understand that most students (perhaps 99%?) don't agree with your view? And if so you should be repectful of that perhaps? Your figures also don't work in a real world situation most students find themselves in. Ask 20 female students and I bet more than half will have a type of store card. These bad boys charge 30% interest on all purchases, with lots of students using them. Students are not cash 'poor', they are just confined to a lifetime of debt and living with the consequences. Really Martyn have you nothing in your life more important than trolling on other peoples blogs? sheesh!
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